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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease

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Hey all! I used to come on this forum all the time but lost my password and username :p Good to be back!

Anyway, I had a question about the timeline when Joe falls off of the fire escape and blacks out. One thing I didn't get was this: when he falls off the fire escape and blacks out, we see a scene in which he kills Bruce Willis and then this kick starts his 30 years. How and when does this alternate version occur? How does it occur alongside the previous version in which Willis gets away?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Logical course of events (Spoilers below, natch-oily)

Young Joe is a looper.

Young Joe kills old Joe, and discovers he has closed his loop after the deed is done.

Young Joe lives nearly three decades more, his cash dwindling thanks to his addictions, doing worse and worse things to keep going. He becomes old. Old Joe.

Old Joe meets a woman who fixes him up. They fall in love and are happy. When it's time for Old Joe to be taken away and shot back in time to when he closed his loop years before, however, his wife is killed by the Rainmaker's goons. He doesn't want this to happen. He takes advantage of the time travel to set things right for himself.

Old Joe goes back in time to when his loop should have been closed. This time it's different. He is not bound and hooded, so he can react when Young Joe goes to kill him. Young Joe hesitates and Old Joe gets away.

Thanks to an almanac he has brought back with him, Old Joe makes Young Joe very rich through sports gambling.

Old Joe takes drops of potion to go back to his own time while Young Joe, very rich, goes on a safari trip.

Old Joe is horrified to discover that his potion meant he slept too long and he wakes up in a time beyond his own, a wasteland. He looks at a pair of boots in his house that Young Joe wore and sees a dead butterfly on the sole. He sees a sign saying DEUTSCHER ELEKTED PREZIDENT and hears a sound of thunder.

Old Joe tries to use his fail-safe box to undo all the time travel, but Young Joe has got to the garage before him, destroying it. Sighting graffiti featuring a circle of monkeys and with the words WE DID IT, Old Joe makes it his mission to go back in time and set the wrong things right.

Old Joe manages to find a way back and sets things right, but when he returns to his own timeline, finding his wife alive and well, he sees her drop his wedding ring, and he finds out he has been dead the whole time.

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"We will soon be ready to leave our lunar domes to descend and bring change to earth. We need to be free... to make love all day. Every day. Must be free. "


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 am 
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The Pin's Mom
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STOP

MAKING ME

LOVE YOU

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I'm way too lazy to ever be truly belligerently insane.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:55 am 
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Slow. Clap.

(Biffness aside, the first half of that is a great legit answer to your question ff)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease

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The explanation is great, but we are still left hanging with the unresolved storyline of Old Joe who gets killed by Young Joe (let's call him Old Joe 1). We know nothing about him, and why he gets sent back all bundled up, but Old Joe 2 sends himself back unbundled. As a viewer I'd like know why these two Old Joes have different outcomes when it comes to being sent back. Maybe they just had different lifestories, but still I'd like a little more recognition of what happens to Old Joe 1 and why Old Joe 2's end is different from Old Joe 1.
If it's "Old Joe 2 had a wife, and something to fight for - Old Joe 1 did not" then a minute or two of footage could have cleared that up. Perhaps as a flashback during the diner scene.
So my objection is that the movie inserts this loose thread (Old Joe 1), which is not really resolved. Everything else - to my understanding - is resolved. Except for this part of the storyline.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:50 pm 
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I left out the part about a wizard frying an egg.

Perhaps this sort of paradox happens all the... time... and Old Joe 1 led a life just slightly different enough to not be ready when he was sent back. Maybe the squiggly cloud has to be in just the right region of spacetime. Maybe if not enough people in the theatre cough, Tinker-Bell doesn't come back to life.

Maybe the Rainmaker gets his existence negated, reinstated, repudiated, worsened, bettered, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters every week or so.

_________________
"We will soon be ready to leave our lunar domes to descend and bring change to earth. We need to be free... to make love all day. Every day. Must be free. "


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Donnacha wrote:
Maybe the Rainmaker gets his existence negated, reinstated, repudiated, worsened, bettered, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters every week or so.

It seems to me that you're saying that a Gatman wouldn't even lift a finger to save his own grandmother from the ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Day Glo really knows where his towel is.

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"We will soon be ready to leave our lunar domes to descend and bring change to earth. We need to be free... to make love all day. Every day. Must be free. "


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Donnacha wrote:
Day Glo really knows where his towel is.


You win for this reference.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:10 pm 
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The Pin's Mom
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A more sincere response to our new fearlessflyer's question:

Perhaps the only difference was that, in the original chain of events, Joe's wife was not accidentally killed, giving him that extra reason to fight. Maybe she was killed, but that version of Old Joe was too grief-stricken to do anything about it except meekly accept his own demise. That version of Old Joe is uninteresting: he only exists because he has to for First Young Joe to become Second Old Joe. Our story deals with Second Young Joe and Second Old Joe. Anything the other hypothetical versions of themselves do is moot.

_________________
@rcjohnso wrote:
I'm way too lazy to ever be truly belligerently insane.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:48 pm 
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sarahalyse wrote:
A more sincere response to our new fearlessflyer's question:

I feel bad now.

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"We will soon be ready to leave our lunar domes to descend and bring change to earth. We need to be free... to make love all day. Every day. Must be free. "


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:39 am 
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Donnacha wrote:
I left out the part about a wizard frying an egg.

Perhaps this sort of paradox happens all the... time... and Old Joe 1 led a life just slightly different enough to not be ready when he was sent back. Maybe the squiggly cloud has to be in just the right region of spacetime. Maybe if not enough people in the theatre cough, Tinker-Bell doesn't come back to life.

Maybe the Rainmaker gets his existence negated, reinstated, repudiated, worsened, bettered, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters every week or so.


I finally found the Rainmaker in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of The Leopard".


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:48 am 
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Actually, I would agree with Sarah on this one it's just one of the three possible timelines. As I understood it, the first time Joe falls, he dies, and Old Joe dies along with him seconds apart. BORING! Second is slightly more fun (we see the rise and fall of a man with no conscience) which leads to the third, and most interesting timeline.

Also, Donnacha, I firmly believe you are a God of funny, or at least a semi deity of a kind.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:05 pm 
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lah-di-dah wrote:
Also, Donnacha, I firmly believe you are a God of funny, or at least a semi deity of a kind.


Take our Donnacha...please.

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What have future generations ever done for me?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:42 pm 
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maxfrost wrote:
lah-di-dah wrote:
Also, Donnacha, I firmly believe you are a God of funny, or at least a semi deity of a kind.


Take our Donnacha...please.


With a very good chance of stepping on a remnant eggshell of an inside running joke :arrow: Sure. Where would you like me to take the the said deity? I have been very fond of the horchaterias lately.


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