Rian's Forum

A place to discuss Rian's stuff, and stuff that isn't Rian's stuff. Hello!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:11 pm 
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CFaughnan wrote:
Cool! :)

im presuming your a writer too :) have you anything online i could look up! :)


The only stuff I have online is on resistortransistor.com It's mostly poetry.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:09 pm 
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CFaughnan wrote:
Cool! :)

im presuming your a writer too :) have you anything online i could look up! :)


We have a thread for writers in the "ephemera etcetera" forum. You could come and chat about your projects. :) http://rcjohnso.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3491

J


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Ok, It would be awesome if somebody could answer this for me!

So at the part where we play out Old Joe's past, in which he killed his Old Joe (in the hood), he never came in contact with Sara or Cid. If the two of them stayed together what happened to turn Cid into the Rainmaker? Does this mean that Young Joe killing himself was futile? Cid becomes the Rainmaker anyway? Thanks, I really enjoyed the film. It caused more arguing and yelling than any other movie I've watched in a while. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:50 am 
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Well, that's an entirely different timeline. In the original timeline, Joe never met Sara or Cid, so we have no idea what happened to them. Maybe Sara died by some other means. Maybe a million other things happened that might have "turned" Cid.

But Old Joe changed that timeline by coming back and not getting killed, so whatever happened in that original timeline became nothing more than a possible outcome. Joe moving to China, meeting his wife, her getting killed...none of that happened in the new timeline. It is suggested that by interacting with them and then killing himself, Joe changes Cid's life for the better. Technically Cid could still become the Rainmaker, since we still don't know what the exact element was that made him turn out that way...but wouldn't you rather imagine that Joe's sacrifice wasn't in vain? That Sara succeeded in raising Cid to control his power and use it for good? I know I would.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:03 pm 
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rcjohnso wrote:
The more clear way I think of it is the older self is in an envelope of causality. So any changes that are made to the younger self, the universe tries to duplicate as best it can in the older self. It's as if he's in a bubble from the future, if that makes sense.

And either way you approach it, we clearly play out the rule that what has happened has happened until it changes - things are not retroactively adjusted in the timeline, and the world itself it not adjusted at all, just the physical state of the time traveller.

As for Seth - if you think about his actual injuries, there is no reason at all he couldn't live for the next 30 years. It's all cosmetic damage and loss of extremities, which could be replaced with artificial limbs.


I think the bubble analogy helps fill in several "holes" for me. Am I correct in thinking that the bubble can only sustain the phyical being of the time traveler that remins under his volition during both his original and his new time line and that were also present at the point when the causality bubble was first created? This would explain why Old Seth's appendages disappear and cannot be replaced within the bubble by artificial limbs that he might have actually used only in the new time line after his younger self is dismembered. Old Seth is like the bubble skin thinning and becoming permeable to let air out slowly into the new time line (more like a balloon actually). It also explains why Old Joe disappears like the severed appendages of Old Seth. His bubble thins to the point of popping with no physical being left that is subject to his volition (and the slight delay between the gun shot and his disappearance may be due to brain death in young Joe occuring at the moment when Old Joe actually disappears, thus snuffing out all volition). Is that what is going on?

I did not notice if the gun Old Joe was firing was left. It should have been, since all other effects of his causality bubble remained and it was not a part of his physical being that young Joe could affect.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:44 am 
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Not a plot hole, but a question, Rian: If a looper doesn't survive long enough for to close their own loop (say they get hit by a truck at the age of 48), does their contract still have an endpoint? Presumably someone in the 2074 half of the operation know if a looper doesn't live long enough to be be caught and sent back, and in any case they can't keep looping once time travel is an active part of their universe. What happens? Or would happen?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:19 am 
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Also why did Old Joe put young Joe right next to the train station but not take the time to put him on a train himself? Young Joe already did something stupid, it seems strange that Old Joe would give him a second chance.

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"Do you know what brings rats, mice, snakes up out of they hole?
Chonkyfire, spliced with rock n'roll indubitably, piper pied." - Andre 3000


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:43 am 
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Ooh, I like the question about Loopers who don't survive their 30 years. Never having closed their loop, they'd know something was going to happen to them, too...what effect might that have on the outcome?

As for Old Joe not putting Young Joe on a train: there's a fence. It's one thing to haul a body around, another entirely to actually get them over a 10-foot-tall barbed-wire-topped fence.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:45 am 
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sarahalyse wrote:
Ooh, I like the question about Loopers who don't survive their 30 years. Never having closed their loop, they'd know something was going to happen to them, too...what effect might that have on the outcome?

Is Rian planning to compile a book of Looper fanfic? Second time this week he's answered a question this way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:10 am 
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Quote:
As for Old Joe not putting Young Joe on a train: there's a fence. It's one thing to haul a body around, another entirely to actually get them over a 10-foot-tall barbed-wire-topped fence.


There was so not a fence in that shot. Either way...that's just reduced to bickering...

Quote:
Not a plot hole, but a question, Rian: If a looper doesn't survive long enough for to close their own loop (say they get hit by a truck at the age of 48), does their contract still have an endpoint? Presumably someone in the 2074 half of the operation know if a looper doesn't live long enough to be be caught and sent back, and in any case they can't keep looping once time travel is an active part of their universe. What happens? Or would happen?


Abe would find out. Tell the Looper in question that his contract is up early, congradulations, go live your life.

_________________
"Do you know what brings rats, mice, snakes up out of they hole?
Chonkyfire, spliced with rock n'roll indubitably, piper pied." - Andre 3000


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Day Glo wrote:
sarahalyse wrote:
Ooh, I like the question about Loopers who don't survive their 30 years. Never having closed their loop, they'd know something was going to happen to them, too...what effect might that have on the outcome?

Is Rian planning to compile a book of Looper fanfic? Second time this week he's answered a question this way.



I really want to now, but I'd get performance anxiety!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:41 pm 
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circuitsnake wrote:
Quote:
As for Old Joe not putting Young Joe on a train: there's a fence. It's one thing to haul a body around, another entirely to actually get them over a 10-foot-tall barbed-wire-topped fence.


There was so not a fence in that shot. Either way...that's just reduced to bickering...


Goddammit, this is why I should have just bought the regular DVD. But unless my memory is very much mistaken, he was dumped in the same spot that we see Old Seth climbing the fence. He looks through the fence at the trains. No?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:48 pm 
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sarahalyse wrote:
circuitsnake wrote:
Quote:
As for Old Joe not putting Young Joe on a train: there's a fence. It's one thing to haul a body around, another entirely to actually get them over a 10-foot-tall barbed-wire-topped fence.


There was so not a fence in that shot. Either way...that's just reduced to bickering...


Goddammit, this is why I should have just bought the regular DVD. But unless my memory is very much mistaken, he was dumped in the same spot that we see Old Seth climbing the fence. He looks through the fence at the trains. No?


I don't remember!

_________________
"Do you know what brings rats, mice, snakes up out of they hole?
Chonkyfire, spliced with rock n'roll indubitably, piper pied." - Andre 3000


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:50 am 
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sarahalyse wrote:
Maybe a million other things happened that might have "turned" Cid.


I though the point of Cid was that unless something changed he basically had already nearly turned into the Rainmaker as a result of unintentionally killing the woman he thought was his mother and the ease with which he could be provoked into a level of uncontrollable anger toward his real mother that was dangerously close to lethal. Cid in many ways is already almost as fallen and thoughtlessly willing to pull the trigger as Joe is when we first meet him, and already nearly as bent on the impulse driven destruction of others and ultimately himself as the Looper's job, lifestyle and contract makes them.

So the question the movie posed for me was what does it take to turn any of these characters away from being what they already are, a Looper or a Rainmaker. The movie suggests that breaking the sinner's Loop to turn away a bad future takes a lot, including sobering up, the willingness of Young Joe and Sara to offer or sacrifice their lives to protect another, the renunciation of the world (the silver/gold and future promised by old Joe), and young Joe's rejection and in a sense repentance from the ever escalating sinful means old Joe has embraced to acheive his "solutions".

Anyway, I don't think the movie left the question about how Cid became the Rainmaker in the original timeline unanswered. Cid is already an alienated timebomb that could go off at any moment unless something defuses him by the time Joe meets him. The death of Cid's real Mom by either his unchecked powers or by Old Joe is what seals his Rainmaker fate, and the actions of Cid's Mom and Joe seem to break both of those cycles by the end of the movie.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:55 am 
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I don't really subscribe to the theory that Cid is "fallen". He is a five-year old who throws gets scared, or hurt, or has a tantrum, and bad things happen that he can't yet fully control. He is not fully developed, like YJoe/OJoe.

That said, I do applaud Rian for adding complexity and insight to the portrayal of a child. Cid is no angel, and is making plots and plans of his own that he keeps to himself. I can see why a person would consider Cid a "fallen" character, because a striking feature of this film is that Cid actually is a serious character, an active participant, not just a topic that is meant to illustrate some aspect of childhood.


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