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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:44 pm 
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rcjohnso wrote:
I'm not smart enough to try to untangle the tt stuff in Primer, but I love it.

Upstream Color is brilliant. And don't believe the early reactions that make it sound like an abstract cloud of ideas - it is a rock solid and perfectly sensical story, told in a very innovative and challenging way.


Translation: "Oh, by the way, all you guys that liked Primer so much. I've already seen Upstream Color. Eat your livers."

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:42 am 
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EAT 'EM!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:03 pm 
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I've been getting my head tangled up with the timelines of OJ and YJ.

The first timeline, only discovered afterwards, see's YJ have his loop closed and lives his thirty years out, meeting his love and then seeing her killed, prompting his return, minus the hood.

We see a second timeline, albeit first, when OJ escapes from YJ and continues his path to seek out the child Rainmaker.

OJ meets YJ in the diner and talks of the Rainmaker for the first time. He describes to him how he has seen his mother shot, how he has a prosthetic jaw etc.

This future could only have been a result of OJ escaping his planned execution by YJ and therefore hunting down the child rainmaker and shooting his mother, catching him in the face and putting in motion the cataclysmic chain of events where he will go onto to destroy the future that OJ knows of.

Taking this into account without the theories on here that Cid already has several paths to becoming the Rainmaker, with or without the intervention of OJ, the OJ that is hunting him down in this timeline has already experienced the future that he has created.

With that being the case, how does he not remember that he created it?

Or are we to assume that the bullet Cid took to the jaw/cheek/face didn't create the prosthetic jaw storyline? With that I mean is there every possibility that the wound Cid receives leads to infection or something else which results in the loss of his jaw, this the need for prosthetics.

And if this is the case, is this a cheeky directorial/script writing gem thrown in just to keep us guessing and theorising?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:43 am 
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1. The two "facts" about the Rainmaker are both rumors Joe has heard that he tosses off quickly, adding "stuff like that." This does not suggest that these things are necessarily absolute truth.
2. These things are reported by Old Joe after he returns and his memories begin to be affected by the time change, so it's possibly that this memory is affected by the changes he has already made in coming back.
3. Cid saw his surrogate mother die, even in the timeline where he does not see Sarah die.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:02 am 
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The point about the jaw is a good one - it's actually the one and only "gotcha" that I've heard so far that holds up to scrutiny. It was a line that was added in order to really hammer home the connection at the end that OJ created the Rainmaker, and honestly if I was a tinkerer I'd probably go back and take it out. My justification for it is that in the soup of OJ's memories assimilating the changes in the timeline, he's already started to incorporate echoes of this timeline he's creating, and this is a vestige of that. Like a "memory" from the future. But I probably should have cut it out. Regrets, I have a few.

The jaw thing aside though, the Rainmaker existing without OJ's interference seems rock solid to me.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:08 pm 
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The other question I have is regarding the ID body disposing issue they have in the future. I'm sure I keep missing the answer every viewing. :oops:

When OJ goes off to China and meets his lady, he is discovered by the three men and sent back for termination, in the first timeline. Are we to assume that his first timeline and return, hooded up, does not feature the death of his lady? Because if it doesnt, he has no reason to try and escape. Or he simply fails trying to do so.

Also, how do they track him down in China? Is this something connected to the ID problem they have? The reason I ask is that YJ knows he is a Looper and will after 30 years be sent back for his termination. Why doesn't he try and hide, rather than make a scene, where he is more than likely to be tracked to a specific location. He simply looks as if he settles for a rural location within an Asian village somewhere. Wouldn't it make more sense, given his impending return for death, having just fallen in love, he would try and go somewhere further a field to live out his days.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 pm 
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GoobaTroopa wrote:
The other question I have is regarding the ID body disposing issue they have in the future. I'm sure I keep missing the answer every viewing. :oops:

When OJ goes off to China and meets his lady, he is discovered by the three men and sent back for termination, in the first timeline. Are we to assume that his first timeline and return, hooded up, does not feature the death of his lady? Because if it doesnt, he has no reason to try and escape. Or he simply fails trying to do so.


Yup - I assume one of these two options is what happened.

GoobaTroopa wrote:
Also, how do they track him down in China? Is this something connected to the ID problem they have? The reason I ask is that YJ knows he is a Looper and will after 30 years be sent back for his termination. Why doesn't he try and hide, rather than make a scene, where he is more than likely to be tracked to a specific location. He simply looks as if he settles for a rural location within an Asian village somewhere. Wouldn't it make more sense, given his impending return for death, having just fallen in love, he would try and go somewhere further a field to live out his days.


Father afield than a remote village in mainland China? I guess my thinking is that he did try to hide when he moved to the country, covered his tracks, etc. But he is also not surprised when they show up, and this leads me to think that he has some fatalism about it all, because he knows they always find you. How they always do this is a cool question but is totally outside the realm of our plot - but it would be fun to watch in a separate short film.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:06 am 
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Ha ha. I can see how silly that looks now you've wrote it. What I meant is that had he not had the argument with Abe about going to France and his purpose was to go to France then he changed his mid at the last moment, I don't think it would leave me wondering. Albeit, that's the magic of the movie and its lasting effect on you as a viewer.

I think a great short would be a France timeline to see how he would've been caught after thirty years and what his mindset would be, should he be caught.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:06 am 
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I'm really happy with the China change we made but I would have loved to have shot in Paris. (ahhhh, Paris.)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:16 am 
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rcjohnso wrote:
I'm really happy with the China change we made but I would have loved to have shot in Paris. (ahhhh, Paris.)


Paris does have a certain...je ne sais quoi...taste to it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:39 am 
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Garcon Bleu on the Place de Concorde would've cause riots.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Thanks very much Rian!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x3f-lw1EeM


Last edited by CFaughnan on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:00 pm 
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GoobaTroopa wrote:
Ha ha. I can see how silly that looks now you've wrote it. What I meant is that had he not had the argument with Abe about going to France and his purpose was to go to France then he changed his mid at the last moment, I don't think it would leave me wondering. Albeit, that's the magic of the movie and its lasting effect on you as a viewer.

I think a great short would be a France timeline to see how he would've been caught after thirty years and what his mindset would be, should he be caught.



French is the language of the past...and Chinese of the future.

I always theorized that Joe was on a path toward destiny. Then Young Joe meets Sara only due to interference from Old Joe. Then when Sara takes Young Joe off drugs in her own way (I love her methods), I think Young Joe realizes that Old Joe simply fell in love with whoever helped him get clean. So to him, Old Joe's girl might not be so special.

I kept expecting Old Joe to try to keep holding onto this memory as it slipped away, and eventually opening the locket to find a picture of Sara instead.

Having altered Cid's future course, I still want to know what happened to Piper's kid.

If you tie off all the loose ends of a story, there is nothing left to the imagination.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:26 pm 
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This may have been asked before (so i apologise in advance), but i did go through all 6 pages in this thread and found no mention of the following:

I was a bit surprised at how they shot OJ's wife like no big deal, supposedly killing her, but they would not just simply put a bullet between OJ's eyes. Did they timetravel the wife's dead body back to some looper so to make it disappear? Couldn't they have done the same with OJ, thus not allowing the chance of his loop run? I have yet to see a dead body run. :lol:

Any thoughts?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:45 pm 
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taticastro wrote:
This may have been asked before (so i apologise in advance), but i did go through all 6 pages in this thread and found no mention of the following:

I was a bit surprised at how they shot OJ's wife like no big deal, supposedly killing her, but they would not just simply put a bullet between OJ's eyes. Did they timetravel the wife's dead body back to some looper so to make it disappear? Couldn't they have done the same with OJ, thus not allowing the chance of his loop run? I have yet to see a dead body run. :lol:

Any thoughts?



Killing OJs wife was an accident. Murder is a big no-no, and killing someone is going to leave some sort of trace. The cleanest thing to do is send them back first, then kill them, so there's no blood, body, weapon, anything in the future. The gat men heard a sound, and some kid with an itchy trigger finger shot her by mistake. They then did there best to cover up the evidence (by torching the house). Whether they send her body back, too, or just burned it is never explained.

So I don't think killing her was "no big deal", and it's still cleaner/easier to send the person back first.

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Last edited by tsukasa13 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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