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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:33 am 
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^ Excellent point, yes!

And yeah, I'm sure that was a joke. But it is worth pointing out that Rey never seemed motivated in any instance by romantic or erotic love, so romantic love (or loss) would never turn her to the Dark Side. It would be hard to come up with something that would turn her, because so far, we don't know much about her attachments; she is kind of adrift for much of the movie.

I do feel like Finn/Rey is endgame, and I really kind of hope so, because I like them together, and I feel like Rey and Finn could grow into a romance, if that's what the writers have in mind.

Poe *did* seem motivated by romantic love in some places, or at least more than just goodness; I say that utterly without slash goggles. Both actors said that's what they were doing. (On the other hand, I loved Poe's inherent goodness and I SUPER hope that doesn't change. His sassing Kylo Ren when he knew he was probably going to die was not bravado as much as resigned bravery. “Gonna die, might as well go with a laugh.” That was swagger without conceit, humor without bitterness. OMG please keep Poe [and Rey and Finn] un-jaded!)

So I get that Finn/Rey is probably what's being set up, but I still want Poe Dameron to be the sarcastic-but-not-mean-or-bitter, brave, goodhearted queer hero we've all been waiting for.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:10 pm 
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Justin wrote:
I'm pretty sure you're joking, but this is worth pointing out: I saw an explanation someplace that finally and logically explained the logic behind Obi-Wan's "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine" line: That Luke, after seeing Obi-Wan killed by Vader, will never turn to the dark side. So I think that Rey seeing Ren kill his father will have much the same effect.


Absolutely.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:58 am 
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JulesKD wrote:
I loved Poe's inherent goodness and I SUPER hope that doesn't change. His sassing Kylo Ren when he knew he was probably going to die was not bravado as much as resigned bravery. “Gonna die, might as well go with a laugh.” That was swagger without conceit, humor without bitterness. OMG please keep Poe [and Rey and Finn] un-jaded!

So I get that Finn/Rey is probably what's being set up, but I still want Poe Dameron to be the sarcastic-but-not-mean-or-bitter, brave, goodhearted queer hero we've all been waiting for.


Yes to all of this. I hope Rian is secretly taking notes.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:19 am 
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T-jones wrote:
I'm afraid that losing Finn to Poe would drive Rey towards the Dark Side.

give that person a bubblegum cigar.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



JulesKD,
are you a DHALGREN fan?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Hi there! New to the forum. Been a huge fan since Brick, and I was so excited when I found out Rian was doing Star Wars! I can't even imagine what sort of strange thing is is going to be (and I mean that in the most wonderful of ways).

ANYWAYS, I wanted to add, that while I love the idea of Finn/Poe (because damn) I hope the push for having a queer protagonist doesn't get muddled up with "shippers" (this is not an insult to shippers! I'm a shipper. Its just the push for a gay Poe Dameron is part of a bigger thing than just who we want him to end up with).

As in, I really think it would be so awesome if Poe was gay and it was mentioned casually. Because I think that would be really amazing and progressive and such a huge step. Especially if it was a non-issue, and him and Finn were shown as being bros. I've read the novelization of TFA, and Before the Awakening, and didn't see anything that would indicate Poe's sexuality one way or the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:07 pm 
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DontCryWolf wrote:
As in, I really think it would be so awesome if Poe was gay and it was mentioned casually.


100% agree. Romantic relationships (other than the initial weirdness of Luke/Leia resolving to Han/Leia) don't really factor in super tremendously in this particular story. While it would be a really positive step forward, it's going to be really, really difficult to do without feeling like it was shoehorned in.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Justin wrote:
DontCryWolf wrote:
As in, I really think it would be so awesome if Poe was gay and it was mentioned casually.


100% agree. Romantic relationships (other than the initial weirdness of Luke/Leia resolving to Han/Leia) don't really factor in super tremendously in this particular story. While it would be a really positive step forward, it's going to be really, really difficult to do without feeling like it was shoehorned in.


EDITED BECAUSE I MISSREAD YOUR COMMENT.
Agreed! I think Star Wars is at its best when its about friendships and family first, and romantic relationships second. As it is, I think it could be an offhand comment and wouldn't feel like they were making A VERY SPECIAL STATEMENT lol. Maybe casual viewers would notice, maybe they would blink and miss it. But it would then become part of the "character bible" for Poe and would factor into any spin-off novels, character bios, etc. And we would finally have a queer character to identify with. Everyone wins. Finn and Poe can be besties, and everyone can keep writing slash fic about them ;) (doesn't stop Spock/Kirk or Sherlock/John shippers!)

This isn't because I'm thinking they have to 'sneak the gay in, but just I really don't like romance in Star Wars. Han/Leia was, by movie standards, a pretty lowkey romance honestly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:24 pm 
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A low-key line like "He's got a guy back on Zorgon IX" would be fine. Turning Star Wars into a bodice-ripping romance novel would not. I want explosions and daring and lightsabers and spaceships and guys in funny suits shouting "CURSES!" with their fist in the air. We're totally into the social space and time where acknowledging that things other than strictly monogamous heterosexual relationships do in fact exist, it just has to be a part of the story and not an add-on.

Also, commenting about this on the Internet without regular social nuance and stuff and the normal back-and-forth of a meatspace conversation makes one write very, very carefully. In the event that something above sounded like "They better not fuck up my Star Wars with any o' them types" that's really really not my intention. (This isn't a reaction to your edit since I didn't see the original post, I just want to be clear that I'm in favor of the sentiment generally and know how often things can be misread or misinterpreted.)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:27 pm 
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All true! I don't think a huge LGBT romance (or ANY romance) would fit into the story, because the concepts are so huge and the movies are mad long anyway, AND they also are setting up for Finn/Rey and, at this point, it would be a major deal to explain why that doesn't turn out. THe movies would become About Gay Characters.

A casual mention of Poe being into guys would really about cover it. Then we'd all have our gay hero and all would be well. :D

Neil_Leach wrote:
T-jones wrote:
I'm afraid that losing Finn to Poe would drive Rey towards the Dark Side.

give that person a bubblegum cigar.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



JulesKD,
are you a DHALGREN fan?


I don't think so? :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:26 pm 
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Justin wrote:
A low-key line like "He's got a guy back on Zorgon IX" would be fine. Turning Star Wars into a bodice-ripping romance novel would not. I want explosions and daring and lightsabers and spaceships and guys in funny suits shouting "CURSES!" with their fist in the air. We're totally into the social space and time where acknowledging that things other than strictly monogamous heterosexual relationships do in fact exist, it just has to be a part of the story and not an add-on.

Also, commenting about this on the Internet without regular social nuance and stuff and the normal back-and-forth of a meatspace conversation makes one write very, very carefully. In the event that something above sounded like "They better not fuck up my Star Wars with any o' them types" that's really really not my intention. (This isn't a reaction to your edit since I didn't see the original post, I just want to be clear that I'm in favor of the sentiment generally and know how often things can be misread or misinterpreted.)



Don't worry it didn't come across like that! I think in general the internet doesn't allow for conveying the complexity or nuance of opinions. Which is why I think Tumblr can be so toxic, with how they tend to jump all over things/people and rip them apart for even tiny perceived "bad" things (can you tell I'm burned out on tumblr, lol). But anyways, I got what you were trying to say!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:02 pm 
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You shouldn't sweat it. Your edit reminded me that a lot of people that aren't necessarily registered (or are and haven't posted yet) are probably also reading this and I should probably be excruciatingly clear about what I meant. I've been goofing around and posting a lot of stuff online for a long long time and know how a small turn of phrase one way or another can be misread or misinterpreted and wanted, while I'm posting on a particularly complicated topic like this, to make sure that my underlying intention isn't misunderstood.

Lots of jerks online like to say some variation of "But my intentions were pure!" after they've been caught out trying to be a sly asshole, but still an asshole, running some sort of plausible-deniability game. I fully acknowledge that in most senses of the word and most of any given day that I am, in fact, an asshole. In this I'm trying to be as honest and open as I can that I'm really not being one of those sorts of assholes here. To wit: I went to Paris last month for the first time, and I have a co-worker who is from France. Today I emailed him about the great time I had there. My words--verbatim--were "Paris is incredible. Holy shit, holy shit." Even he mailed me back asking "Are you being sarcastic?"

What I'm trying to say is that I have a bit of a reputation. But again, online chatter can miss out on some winky-knowy sort of stuff (which is the gray area where assholes love to live), so I want to be very clear about which side of this particular conversational fence I stand on, just to fend off any sort of bad noise that can result from someone coming in cold.


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