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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:45 pm 
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I have to tell first, that I absolutly enjoyed The Last Jedi. I originally didn't had time to reserve a movie ticket, but then because of a family tragedy (my grandma died that morning) I suddently had a free day off, so to ease my mind, I went to the biggest movie in Budapest, and asked people in the last minutes before the start of the Pre-premiere-marathon, if they still have a free ticket for me. So I watched the film among the first people in Hungary, and then I remained in the movie, and watched it 2 more times on the same day. A few weeks later, when I had more free time, I went back to watch it with friends. So I know all the easter eggs, the hidden backstories, the little details, etc. And I think, it was more than a movie, it was more like a magic trick. And sadly, it also makes me remember the day I lost my grandma, who was a little bit like the old Luke Skywalker in her last years. So I was feeling myself like Rey watching all the things I lost that day.
Still, I think, its not a perfect movie, and it had some serious flawns which I hope will be improved in the future trilogy made by Rian Johnson. I have to tell, contrary to the mainstream critics, I enjoyed mostly the plotlines in Canto Bight and the story line on the island with Luke, I could watch it more (I hope to see the deleted scenes here), while the spacewar part was more conventional, I think. And I think, it suffered a lot from the same flawns, like the Force Awakens: it copied to much of the plotlines of the original trilogy, in some aspects it was a remake. (I really hope, that the new trilogy will not make the same mistake: we need more originality instead of remakes.) Still, I enjoyed in some extent even this, so generally it was a good movie.
But on the other hand, I could understand, why some people think, that the new trilogy is destroying Star Wars. Because, in some extent, it uses unnecessary destruction among the original characters. Please, note the word: "unneccesary". To understand what I mean, I will tell a few background information.
I watched Star Wars (New Hope) for the first time when I was only 4 years old together with my parents. I watched it on a small black and white Yunost tv-machine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsNcyxxkbqw), the pinnacle of soviet technology, and it was the main TV-night event in a time, when there was only 1 TV-chanel in all the country, and even that chanel was broadcasting only a few hours per day, sometimes in bad quality. (Most people didn't even had telephones in their home, there was only a few street call-stations for cases of emergency.) The funny thing is, that it was not a sci-fi film for us. It was the middle of the Cold War, when president Reagen was talking all day long about Nuclear War, Star Wars-Laser Weapon program, etc. So the communist state was presenting Star Wars not as much as a fairy tale in space, but as an education tool for the masses: The Death Star was Reagen's Laser Space Station, which he wants to use on Easter Europe to destroy us all, like Alderaan. Everyone was scared, especially the adults (it was like a reverse horror-movie, we children had to sit there with our parents, so they where not got scared so easily :) ). We children just started to realise, what is happening around us in the World by watching this film.
At that time, because of Communism, most west-made movies where forbidden to watch. We have watched every foreign movie only after a 3-5 years delay, with a lot of censure. Action movies, criminal series where more accessibble, because it showed the dark side of the Western "Decadent Capitalist" World: corruption, poverty, perversion, drugs, vandalism, violence, criminal bands ruling everything. Still, the communist authorities didn't want the common people to think, that people on the West could have the newest cars, televisions, frigiders, video-tapes, etc, which people could not posses in our countries, so even this movies have to wait a few years, before they could pass the cenzorship. We where like a country light-years away from the West: we watched the past of the movie-world of that hemisphere. First it was the same with Star Wars too. When the first critics have surfaced about it, most people was not knowing, what it was about. A few people for example recieved a video tape about a Japanese copycat sci-fi film (I think, its called Message from Space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEmGbpgRzNE ), and they where thinking, this was the original Star Wars of George Lucas, so they have written an article about this in a mainstream newspaper. ( :) ) Other people heard rumors about a trilogy (the sequels where allready presented in the USA before the first episode was showed in movie theaters in Hungary), and they also heard, that there will be 9 episodes together, 3 prequel, 3 sequel, and a lot of other things. Thinking back about that time, its suprising, how much of this was common knowledge among the kids, even Anakin Skywalkers story was well-known in gossip (how he had fallen in magma after fighting Obi van Kenobi), literally decades before it was made a movie. (To understand, why it is suprising: at that time the only people who could hear this kind of News where the people, who could travel freely back and forth between the West and East, so people, who where probably working for the local branch of the secret police /a puppet office of KGB/ and maybe in the same time for the CIA, and for example, if you where a too big fan of Karl May's Winnetou-novels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou), then you could land in jail for being an USA spy talking with real native americans /this really happened to somebody/. The same was true for Star Wars.)
Everything changed after the fall of communism. After that, people where thinking, that the Empire in Star Wars represented the Russian Empire. The Jedi symbolised traditional religions, like Christianity, which was forbidden in Communism (for example my father almost lost his job as translator, when once I -- being only a 5 years old child not understanding this society -- was telling in public kindergarten, that we used to visit Christian Masses on weekends, this is how I learned from early on, that I should keep it as a secret, that I read the Bible for example. People in the West will learn this only now, with the mass-surveliance states created after 9/11, how it is to live in a totalitarian Police State, when even your family members are marked as Enemies of the State for telling the wrong thing to somebody, or for simply knowing wrong people.). This way, Star Wars represented our fight for national freedom, allmost all the former Star Wars novels and comics where translated to our language, and even unauthorised/illegal original novels and books where written by the most popular Hungarian writers of that era. (Later I have seen some of this early stories resurfaced in western comics and computer games, I think, some of the Hungarian IT programmers working on the projects presented this ideas in the West, like the story of the Force Unleashed computer games are very similar to the Hungarian novels written by Gáspár András and Nyulászi Zsolt in 1991-92: http://monty.blog.hu/2011/09/28/konyv_s ... er_crispin .) So when Timothy Zahn was writing his superb novels telling the story, that the era of New Republic and Democracy was not an era of total freedom and happines, and the fight against the Empire was not over, everybody read this as a kind of warning to Society at Large: the fight is not over, you should make a lifelong struggle to fix the future as we want to see it. (While we watched horrified in real life, that our Democracy was abused: the winners of the new Society where the same communist elites, who have taken away our freedom during the time of oppression.) This is why Star Wars was so important for us, and this is why we read all the future EU (now Legends) novels for decades after this. So for us, old fans in Eastern Europe, and for our children and grandchildren the characters represented only in novels, comics, computer games, etc. represented our role models, fictional family members and allmost religious icons. It was not only a strange article in the Wookiepedia for us, it was part of our everyday life, of our common mythology.
And suddently JJ Abrams killed them all, just like that, unnecessarly. And why? Because he wanted to sell more Chewbacca toys.
You understand the absurdity?
So I dont agree with the popular critic, that it was the Last Jedi, which destroyed the Star Wars, most of the damage was allready created by the Force Awakens. In the new trilogy, the original heroes (Han Solo, Leia, Luke Skywalker) look like a band of idiots, loosers and misfits, most of the story background is illogical, out of character. Why would Leia and Han call their child as Ben Solo? They hardly knew the original Ben Kenoby (Leia was knowing him only as Obi van Kenobi)? Why not call him for example Bail (Organa) Solo? Or Tobias (Backett) Solo? Why is it, that Luke has no family of his own? (The worst theory I didn't even said yet, but if I remember it rightly, King Arthur was killed by a traitor, who was also his illegitime son from sex with his malevolent sister, so it is possible, that Ben Solo is called Ben, because in reality he is the son of Luke from before the time Luke and Leia knew, they where siblings, and Han was in karbonite? So this is why Luke had no family of his own?) What happened to this characters? Their life ended after Return of the Jedi, and they never achieved anything? And all the other characters we loved? Mara Jade? Jason and Jaina? Talon Karrde? Lando, the big and sucessfull businessman?
And the new meta-back-story: the First Order as Putins Russia, and the resistance as the Ukrainian freedom fighters? The same Ukrainians, who forbid for the Hungarians to talk in their own mother language (it is still like that today)? The present proxy-wars of the USA looks heroic only if you didnt have to watch the everyday horrors and end-results of it, like the mass-genocide in the Near East, and the EU-refugee situations created by it. Its a very narrow, USA-centric view of the World!
Most people got disillusioned after watching the Force Awakens ( a lot of people watched it only because they where hoping for a new Star Wars movie, but after watching it for the first time, they where not watching it again for a secund time, they where feeling, they are watching a spiritlesss copycat movie like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR59Dybwux8 ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bF8AxT12o ), and while the Last Jedi tries to fix a few details, it still restores only fragments of the original fame.
The most sad thing is that Star Wars is a sci-fi universe, with unlimited possibility to creativity and new details. For example, you could make basically the same films, while writing only a few background details differently.
Like: After the Yuzhaan Vong war most people in the former New Republic got disillusioned with democracy and pacifism, whatching the destruction it made possible. So the same First Order recieves popularity. Leia has seen the trouble on the horizont, she starts to work on it. In the same time, she has no time for her family, which have to cope with the sudden free time after the war and the loss of little Anakin Solo. The twins travel to planets unknown (they are adults after all), and Han remains alone with grief. The Falcon makes him remember the things he lost, so he wastes the ship too. Suddently, he loses his senses out of love, and clones both Anakin and Chewi with spaarti tech. They have the same memory, same personality, like the dead ones. Only difference is, that Chewi is an adult, who dont cares if he was cloned, but Anakin was just a child, and strong in the Force (so there is a interference between his original Force Spirit=Ghost and the new spirit of the cloned body). He has trouble with the memories of a dead boy, and feels, that he is a different person, who should still inherit all the Skywallker family fame. He gots jealous of Lukes newly born child, Ben Skywalker, so he starts to call himself Ben Solo (as he is not Anakin, just a clone of it). He gots morbidly interested in death and resurection. And allready the same story is going on, which we seen in the Movies, just the former EU (now called Legends) remains intact. It's possible, that Ben kills Luke in the new Jedi Temple, when the Knights of Ren attacked it, but most people didnt know, that Luke died, so everybody thinks, that he deserted the Galaxy, while in reality, his spirit is living on at the Island of Ahch-to in a planet outside time and space, a sacred shrine almost like a Jedi Afterworld. Here Luke learns how to contact the rest of the Galaxy again as a resurected Jedi Ghost, while playing with Ray, acting before her, as if he is still living (and creating the necessary illusions for this). Later, using the new pseudo-personality of Kylo Ren Anakin-Ben Solo kills his father too, then he makes revenge on him by cloning Han Solo to, that he could remember dying, like Ben/Anakin/Kylo did. The rest of the jedi had not died, only they are hiding somewhere in a hidden corner of the galaxy to prepare for restoring the new order after Luke was lost. And so on (there is a lot of similar little details which needed to be fixed, but basically, the former EU gets restored as the story goes on). So basically, you could make the same film, like now, just the EU remains intact. And most of the fans remain happy.
So I will never understand, why you had to delete everything, which was making fans happy.


Last edited by bardajszan on Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 am 
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Blah-blah-blahblahblah.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:51 am 
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I think it's an interesting perspective (though I have less than zero interest in the old EU personally), but didn't have time to respond to everything in here just yet.

A few things:

I have a Czech friend that grew up during the...what I'll euphemistically call the "changeover". We joke a lot about whether they'd discovered fire or doors yet, but clearly it's a different experience from what you or I grew up with.
Budapest is a pretty city. Wish I'd spent more than four hours there.
Even having grown up in the 80s during Reagan and having seen all the "Star Wars" conflation for his ill-conceived missile defense thing, it's never occurred to me until now that of COURSE they'd paint it as "crazy man wants to build a Death Star", because let's be honest here, he would have if he could. Also by 1986 he had about the reasoning capacity of an average potato, so.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:51 am 
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I’m sorry that I didn’t read all the way through the original post. It was very long. I’m sure it was filled with good points on why the EU should be brought back and how the EU could be brought back, but Rian’s trilogy is probably not gonna do that. Rian is not the director you hire if you want to work with what came before, Rian’s the director you hire if you want something new and different. That’s what he does, and he’s one of the world’s best at it. Having him adapt some old book is a waste of both that book and his talents. For now it seems like the Han Solo movie and the rumoured Obi-Wan in exile movie are the projects that focus on what came before, and I’m sure that there’ll be many more of those, but there will also be projects that are different and new, taking the Star Wars setting to places it’s never been, both literally and figuratively, and that’s where Rian comes in. That being said: Please remember that the EU is not gone. It is now called ‘legends’. All that means is that in writing new movies, if the movie will be better by ignoring a small piece of EU lore, it is allowed to do so. That’s the only difference. And in fact it isn’t even really a difference, because that’s how it’s always been. When writing the prequel trilogy, George Lucas handled the EU books and comics in the exact same way. They’re still there, they’re still Star Wars, but they’re legends, they’re tales passed on through the ages, that might not have happened in exactly the way they were told, just like historical books. They’re just one account of something by one person. That’s all it means, that’s the only difference between canon and not canon. That doesn’t mean they’re in any way devalued.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:19 pm 
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T-jones wrote:
I’m sorry that I didn’t read all the way through the original post. It was very long. I’m sure it was filled with good points on why the EU should be brought back and how the EU could be brought back, but Rian’s trilogy is probably not gonna do that. Rian is not the director you hire if you want to work with what came before, Rian’s the director you hire if you want something new and different. That’s what he does, and he’s one of the world’s best at it. Having him adapt some old book is a waste of both that book and his talents. For now it seems like the Han Solo movie and the rumoured Obi-Wan in exile movie are the projects that focus on what came before, and I’m sure that there’ll be many more of those, but there will also be projects that are different and new, taking the Star Wars setting to places it’s never been, both literally and figuratively, and that’s where Rian comes in. That being said: Please remember that the EU is not gone. It is now called ‘legends’. All that means is that in writing new movies, if the movie will be better by ignoring a small piece of EU lore, it is allowed to do so. That’s the only difference. And in fact it isn’t even really a difference, because that’s how it’s always been. When writing the prequel trilogy, George Lucas handled the EU books and comics in the exact same way. They’re still there, they’re still Star Wars, but they’re legends, they’re tales passed on through the ages, that might not have happened in exactly the way they were told, just like historical books. They’re just one account of something by one person. That’s all it means, that’s the only difference between canon and not canon. That doesn’t mean they’re in any way devalued.


Sorry, I think I misspelled the title of my topic, but still, I will clarify what I'm talking about. I was not telling, if Rian Johnson should make his new trilogy based on old EU novels, I just think, that the new leadership of Lucasfilm/Disney simply didn't understand, why so many people where attracted to Star Wars in the first place. It was not just a children fairy tale with a lot of special effects and nostalgia in it, but it was something which reflected important real life problems of the era, and it was also something wich had a lot of creativity in it, with a lot of very fine detail of background, a lot of fan-favorite supporting characters, not just copying the same storylines again and again. I heard the rumor, that the new trilogy developed by Rian will be an adoptation of the fight between the Chiss Ascendancy and the Yuzhaan Vong in the former EU-Legends lore. Im not sure, if this is true (maybe he will make something completly new, like a Chinese-based fictional space domain, or a Wakanda-like hidden jungle-kingdom, or some other exotic planets). But this new trilogy will only work, if he didn't makes the same mistakes what for example JJ Abrams did. If he understands, that he has to tell a story, which has a lot of reflection on present day global social problems (mass migrations, refugee crises, how society at large starts to grow old, how the mass surveilence states created by modern IT-technology challenges our privacy, our personal freedoms and successes, etc.), and also, if he creates something more, than the retelling of the same old story. And as I said, most of the conflicts with the fans where created unecessary, simply because they didn't analised it in the first time, what fans really need. For example, if the new sequel trilogy left out Han Solo and Luke Skywalker and Leia and all the other characters only as some vague background figures, then most people would not had a reason to complain, their icon was left unharmed. And if they still used them, then they should had used them more in line of the former EU-Legends material. But instead they choose the most problematic version, neither this, neither that. (So for example I liked the TLJ, because it tells a human story, how a young relative/almost relative has to fight with the problems of a dying, problematic old parent-figure full of torture and disillusionment, it happens to a lot of us. And the political meta-backstory of the film was also right, it was DJ, who was telling this: do we really need more wars? Or it is just some strange elites, who provoke this so they could more live in their decadent lifestyles. Also, the visuals, the humor, the funny creatures -- its mainly a children movie-series after all, so I never understand the fans, who complained about the ewoks or about Jar-Jar Binks --, the hidden magic trick-like mind games where all perfect. I didn't really understand the problem of some fans with the misplaced fan-theories -- I always assumed, based on supporting materials and the movie TFA, that Rey's real name is Kira Freemaker (somehow related to the Freemaker family, the name Rey she was borrowing from the X-wing pilot's helmet), so she landed on the planet because her parents where junk-hunters, searching some jedi relic, and basically this was proven right. And Snoke, well, we will see, but I think, some of the fan-theories where better than the original plan, whatever it was (my favorite fan theory was, that Snoke is in reality a Force-projection created by Leia, as she has a lot of hidden Force-power, but she is not trained to controll her inner subconscious toughts, so after she sacrified so much for her work to make the Galaxy free, her inner bad instincts started to make revenge on her personal enemies, this is why the first hologram of Snoke was so huge, as the original hologram of Leia was small, of course, most fans would kill anybody, who made this theory reality :) ). But, I think, the story was cripled in my mind because of the former EU-Legends material. In the original Legends continutity this is a time, when Luke lives a more fruitable life with his wife and son, a kind of momentary Happy End for him. So while this TLJ story would be a perfect end for the lifestory of an even more older Luke, about 10 years later, who lost his wife, and didn't knows, where his children and grandchildren live, it looks out of place in this timeperiod. This is why I'm thinking about ways to correct the timeline, so to say.) And as I said, now there is a great rift between the fans, and I think, this rift could damage the franchise in the long term, because I think, a lot of people left out The Last Jedi not because it was a bad film, but because they got so disillusioned in JJ Abrams uncreative adaptation, that when they watched in the TLJ Trailer the AT-AT-like battle, they said: "oh, its a remake again, with characters I hardly know (because they didn't remembered the story of the Force Awakens after 2 years of not watching it again)", and simply went instead to watch Jumanji (it happened to some of my friends). So they didn't even seen the new movie. This is the main problem.


Last edited by bardajszan on Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:32 pm 
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I read your very lengthy post. I will respond with a short one.

I think you're wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:39 pm 
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circuitsnake wrote:
I read your very lengthy post. I will respond with a short one.

I think you're wrong.



Well, thank you. :) I hope you meant the title question, and not some other topics I was mentioning here. :) And sorry for my grammar, but when I write quickly, I used to think in Hungarian grammar structures, this is why I mistype some words or frases in English, I try to correct this later, if I see it. So I dont say, that I know better than the rest of the World, I could just say, what are my personal experiences, but I was working for years in the Hungarian publishing company, which published most of the Hungarian sci-fi and fantasy products (we translated most of the Star Wars novels, comics, roleplaying books, sourcebooks, etc. too, and I created and published my own sci-fi and fantasy universes too), so maybe I know what I'm talking about. When you work in a shared universe Fantasy or Sci-fi World, its very important to stick to allready existing in-universe lore, before you create something new, otherwise the old fans will be very confused and angry (as you could see in the history of Star Wars). But to attract new fans, you have to create something new too. (This is why for example the Alien franchise is dead, it has no real new avenues before it, so even Neill Blomkamp's little fan-film was showing ideas allready in existence since 30 years.)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:41 am 
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It's just fiction bruh

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:20 pm 
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circuitsnake wrote:
It's just fiction bruh


Yes it is. :) As for example the Bible too. Still, a lot of people debated and fought over it during the millena. Any piece of fiction worth remembering takes itself very seriously. Most of our life is based on fictions, actually, we tell a lot of fiction to ourself, because we want to belive, that we are more than just random animals fighting for survival, that we are important in the greater shape of things. Talking about the Bible, did you know, that the actual story of Moses from the Bible was never adopted in any movie or tv show? Oh, there exist tons of movies and tv shows calling themselfes the "real" story of Moses, but actually, non of them represent the original text of the Bible, they are just "soft" versions created so that the religious hardliners, who actually never read the Bible itself, could satisfy their image about the fairy tale adaptations, which they heard from similar religious people, who never read the text itself. The only piece of film, which is a close adaptation of the story of Moses as it is written in the Bible is Star Wars, the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. You should read the original text, you will be suprised, how much it fits to the film. So for example when Luke (named after the "Evangelist" Luke) debates Darth Vader about the way, how they should behave, it's actually an allegory of the New Testament debating the Old Testament. Of course, probaly the original core of the biblical text was different, but it was reedited and readapted so many times, that in the endresult it represented a horrifiing different version, still, it remained in this form as the basis of our Western culture. It's just an interesting random easter egg of Star Wars. So this little random details are the reason, I like the films so much: it's fun to debate over it. And it is hard to watch, as the franchise falls into disarray because of needless conflicts, which could be avoided with clever editing. (So for example I know why Kylo Ren is called Ben in the script, but it is not an in-universe explanation, it has only meaning in our real World, in Hebrew.)
I tell it frankly: Do you know why so many people are fanatic about the former EU-Legends lore? Because they where imagining themselves as Luke Skywalker as children, because he is the main hero of the film. Later, as they where growing up, they realised, that actually being Luke Skywalker sucks ( sorry for the wording, but this is the best description :) ), he had all the hard fights, but in the end, it is Han Solo, who takes the princess, who is by the way a forgotten sister, so it is even more impropriate to think about her, and God, they where even kissing each other !!! :) So, in the original films he ended up being the looser, just most people didn't realise this.
So in the EU-Legends lore, the character of Mara Jade was introduced not only because the story needed more female protagonists, but because Luke needed a love interest, who is even better, than having a princess as the final prise. So that he didn't ends up being a looser. And the later stories all benefited from this innovation, in this way, when Luke creates the New Jedi Order, he is not doing this alone, his equal partner in the following storylines is a woman, who is like an ideal, which every man dreams about: a former sith apprentice, a valliant, succesfull and innovative multi-tasking wife, who helps to ballance the Force in the story.
So to "remain a Luke Skywalker in mind", withouth looking stupid, you need Mara Jade. She is the main character of all the Legends lore. And I think, this is the biggest problem with the new Movie-trilogy, this is why every fan gets angry. Not because Luke dies in it, not because he makes morally questionable decisions, but because he looks as the biggest looser of the universe in the end. No Mara Jade, no Ben Skywalker, but not even a New Jedi Order remains after him, just a sword, which is not even his own, but the sword of his father, Anakin Skywalker. Really, is anybody suprised, that the fans are angry? I dont belive I have to explain this. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:51 pm 
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bardajszan wrote:
Yes it is. :) As for example the Bible too.


Really bad example: "But the Crusades were fought over people feeling really strongly on both sides!"


bardajszan wrote:
because we want to belive, that we are more than just random animals fighting for survival, that we are important in the greater shape of things.


We do, we are, we aren't.

bardajszan wrote:
Talking about the Bible, did you know, that the actual story of Moses from the Bible was never adopted in any movie or tv show? Oh, there exist tons of movies and tv shows calling themselfes the "real" story of Moses, but actually, non of them represent the original text of the Bible, they are just "soft" versions created so that the religious hardliners...


Define "original text".

bardajszan wrote:
The only piece of film, which is a close adaptation of the story of Moses as it is written in the Bible is Star Wars, the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. You should read the original text, you will be suprised


The most startling piece of Anakin's back story (to me, at least) is that the Force is apparently his parent. If only there was someone in the bible where a desert-dwelling woman has a baby without an actual human being the father...

bardajszan wrote:
So for example when Luke (named after the "Evangelist" Luke)


Or maybe George Lucas thought: "Hey, what's the cool version of my name that people could call me for my self-insert?"

bardajszan wrote:
(So for example I know why Kylo Ren is called Ben in the script, but it is not an in-universe explanation, it has only meaning in our real World, in Hebrew.)


Or maybe he was named for that old family friend, Obi-Wan "Ben" Kenobi.

bardajszan wrote:
I tell it frankly: Do you know why so many people are fanatic about the former EU-Legends lore? Because they where imagining themselves as Luke Skywalker as children, because he is the main hero of the film. Later, as they where growing up, they realised, that actually being Luke Skywalker sucks ( sorry for the wording, but this is the best description :) ), he had all the hard fights, but in the end, it is Han Solo, who takes the princess, who is by the way a forgotten sister, so it is even more impropriate to think about her, and God, they where even kissing each other !!! :) So, in the original films he ended up being the looser, just most people didn't realise this.


Being the Chosen One usually sucks. And trust me, everyone my age was Luke Skywalker on the playground, on the weekend, at bedtime....

And I should note that this was well before any novelizations (or the EU) existed. We were also Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc.



Anyway. I really dig your enthusiasm for all this, but the problem with using EU/Legends as anything but vague story sourcing is you're then just doing movie versions of stuff people already know. And that's not necessarily bad, but wouldn't you prefer to see all-new stories told where you don't know the ending/characters/their fate(s)/etc.? Because to me it sounds like you're simply asking for "this 25-year old book, but in movie form!" You know when a popular TV series does "TV Series: The Movie" and almost without fail it's crap? It's because they're just doing what they do on TV, only with cooler cars/spaceships/explosions/guest stars. And that's what trying to pick up the EU would do: more of the same, but in a new medium. To me that's boring and I want to see new stuff where I gasp when the good guy dies/is a bad guy/is a robot/never existed and the bad guy steals a car/sprains his ankle/isn't a robot/is your father/trips on a rock.

But don't take it from me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Define "original text".

Definition: you take the Bible from the bookself, and read it. (So not the children adaptation, or the Wikipedia short version of it) It's a long, hard and tought process of reading it all, but the biggest jokes you find reading between the lines. So for example Moses kills his wife and children in rage (he tried to kill them even before), but you realise this only if you remember, which tribe was killed in the said chapter (the tribe of his wife and children). When he goes on top of Mount Sinai, he is corrupted from the closeness of God, so he had to wear mask from that on. (Popular theory says, he has fallen into lava, I more think, that he was simply shcizoid, and this deformed his face in visible ways.) He wears the table of the levites on his chest, like Vader. He speaks in the Tabernaculum with God, as Vader with the emperor Palpatine, etc. The name Darth Vader is a corruption of the name Dark Father, Lucas found out this Vader figure to play on the allegory after he decided, he will name the main character Luke (who is an evangelist, this is how the family name Lucas originates, and of course Lucas is aware of this, this is why he decided to have this name in the story too.). Biblical scholars theorise, that maybe Moses was not a rampaging fascist mass murderer, as the present Bible writes it, but later political and theological cenzures corrupted the original story. This is also the oppinion of the Prophet Muhammad about Moses. This is why the sentence: "I'm your Father." is so important in Star Wars. The real meaning was this: "Western civilization, please wake up! You didn't even know, this is our cultural origin!"

The most startling piece of Anakin's back story (to me, at least) is that the Force is apparently his parent. If only there was someone in the bible where a desert-dwelling woman has a baby without an actual human being the father...

Be strong: modern biblical research theorises, that there where more than one such being in the Bible, some of the geneologies where later reedited (For example, the family tree of king David had to fit the persian-zoroastrian Xwedodah-rite, which included sex between close relatives https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/ ... _xwedodah/ , this is how the story of Lot originate, other scholars argue, that it is possible, Moses was the illegitime, but biological heir of the Pharaoh, who is like God of Egypt.). Actually, all the main heroes of the Bible (Moses, David, etc.) started their life as the Messiah (kind of Chosen One), but then they all failed, so this is why somebody had to start it again and again a few generations later. Or this is the later understanding. :)

Or maybe he was named for that old family friend, Obi-Wan "Ben" Kenobi.

Sorry, I allready written it in my first text above, why it is a bad in-universe example. For Leia and Han there existed no real connection to Ben, Leia was searching a vague family friend called Obi Wan Kenobi (the name originates from Obeah -- santiera god of the dead, who comes to haunt people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obeah -- and kenob -- egyptian valley of the gods or instrument used by desert mystics) who died before they met in person, and Han was knowing the guy only for one day or so. So the only real person who had a longstanding relationship to a Ben Kenobi was Luke Skywalker. Both Leia andd Han had a lot of influental father figures in their life, which name would be better suited for them.


And I should note that this was well before any novelizations (or the EU) existed. We were also Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc.

We didn't really had Superman, Batman, Spiderman in Hungary at that time (there existed a few black-market versions circulating, because some scandinavian publishing company printed cheap press material in the "socialist" Budapest, and workers there "liberated" a few pieces, but we didn't knowed, what it was about). We where more playing kuruc-labanc (opposing forces in a historical freedom fight of Hungary) or janisarri-vanguard hero battles, and of course indians and cowboys. But this is not the main point. What I say, a lot of people didn't realised it at that time, that Luke was a kind of strange guy in the original trilogy, and later, when they found out, the EU material arrived just in time to correct the mistake. This is why everyone was so fond of it, beyond the other reasons.


Anyway. I really dig your enthusiasm for all this, but the problem with using EU/Legends as anything but vague story sourcing is you're then just doing movie versions of stuff people already know. And that's not necessarily bad, but wouldn't you prefer to see all-new stories told where you don't know the ending/characters/their fate(s)/etc.?

We are talking about Star Wars, which created the brand "prequels", so to say. Of course, everybody was knowing how the life of Anakin Skywalker will end, dont we? But you misunderstand me. I never said, that Star Wars should recicle the original EU-Legends material. I say, that probably the best way to handle this whould have been to leave the former EU intact, but it created a lot of good background material: worlds, characters, lore, etc. on which they could build more stories. Then they simply followed this storylines with new chapters, characters and directions, while most of the original characters remained unharmed, or maybe with a few anthology-like movie adaptations. This way the whole thing would have been more interesting, and also, it would left the main body of the fans happy. (As I said, we written shared universe novels and story arcs like that in Hungary, it never caused a problem.)


Last edited by bardajszan on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:08 pm 
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I really wish the video games weren't bad. There's a was a beautiful period where Rogue Leader and KOTR were around and there was this beautiful Star Wars expanded universe. But also in the EU they killed Chewy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:13 am 
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If Rian Johnson’s trilogy is all based on the video game DroidWorks I will buy a thousand blu-rays.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:05 am 
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T-jones wrote:
If Rian Johnson’s trilogy is all based on the video game DroidWorks I will buy a thousand blu-rays.


will you also be buying the corresponding TVs and Bluray players?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:43 pm 
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circuitsnake wrote:
T-jones wrote:
If Rian Johnson’s trilogy is all based on the video game DroidWorks I will buy a thousand blu-rays.


will you also be buying the corresponding TVs and Bluray players?


I imagine I’d have to, right?

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