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 Post subject: How did Em die?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:29 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:07 pm
Posts: 4
This might be another thing that I was just...well... dense on. I can be slow on picking up on things sometimes, but was it ever clear exactly how Emily was killed? There didn't appear to be any gaping wounds, any bloodstains... and I suppose it could have been any number of ways. The question though is, do we know?

Seeing Tug's temperment, I'd be surprised if he didn't do something to her stomach/womb first.

It's not really important in the scheme of things, but something I was wondering about.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:53 pm 
I believe in the end Laura says that Tug's gun was linked to the killing of Dode and the girl in the car (who is Emily), so I believe he shot her. There isn't any obvious blood, but you don't see her face, and she's also been in water for quite a while.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:55 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:25 pm
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
there was some discussion about her death in this thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:31 am 
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The Duke
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documentarygirl wrote:
I believe in the end Laura says that Tug's gun was linked to the killing of Dode and the girl in the car (who is Emily), so I believe he shot her. There isn't any obvious blood, but you don't see her face, and she's also been in water for quite a while.


Wow. Good point.

Rian, I think we have a winner.

N.

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Leave the low life to the low lifers and dangle...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:44 pm 
After watching this movie twice in theaters here is a possible Theory that I observed while watching the movie.

I believe that Brendan killed Emily not Tug.

Support:

A) Brendan is obsessively jealous of Emily as seen through their conversation out on the field in the beginning of the movie.

B) Brendan is the only one seen moving the body... is it possible that he wants to cover it up?

C) Who was the only other person to know where Emily was meeting at 12 midnight the night that she died... Dode who gave her the note.... or Brendan WHO FOUND IT?!? Brendan knew that she was meeting at 12 by the tunnel. Why wouldnt he kill her then?

D) The camera focuses on Brendan as Dode is about to tell The Pin who killed her. But this is never found out because Tug kills the Dode before anything is said. Dode desperately wants to tell The Pin that she was pregnant and that, that was the motive.

E) Towards the end, Brendan leaves early to go survey the house before the pin arrives. Maybe this is because he wants to use Tug's car instead to plant Emily's body at the scene of the crime. She is seen in the trunk with the blue bands around her arm as Brendan is leaving the scene of the crime.

F) Brendan uses the brick to frame Laura so that Brendan is not pinned with her death, but Laura is because of the brick.

G) Lastly, we find out that Emily was pregnant by about 3 months... the perfect reason for Brendan to want to kill her... to cover up her pregnancy.

The film makes us believe that we are following the protagonist... but I wouldnt be surprised if Brendan was the antagonist from the beginning and we just never knew it. Its possible that Brendan knew all along that he was going to kill her to prevent the pregnancy. In the beginning Brendan says that he broke up with her 2 months ago... Would it be because he found out that she was 1 month pregnant and that the baby was his?

Comments, Rian?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:12 am
Posts: 13
Location: Binghamton University
Dammit it I wasnt logged in... sorry I posted as the guest above.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:09 pm 
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Hash Head

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 80
Location: Florida
Ban Prismpunk from the forum...I cant handle this outside the box thinking:)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Drama Vamp

Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:14 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Walnut Creek
Not to rain on your parade, because this film is all about considering the unconsidered as part of the discovery process, but I don't agree with your theory.

1.) Brendan was at home staring at his alarm clock at 11:59 pm, then wakes up at 3:16 and finds her body that morning.

2.) Brendan tells Emily that she is the only thing he loves. The way he talks to her, runs toward her eagerly when she is only walking slowly toward him, hugs her, makes as if he wants to kiss her, begs her to come back to him, and promises he can fix whatever problems she has, all make it clear that she means a lot to him. It is unlikely that he would so quickly turn on her if she got pregnant. Especially if the child was his.

3.) Brendan, despite his own slightly checkered past, is a very conscientious person who is loyal to his friends and brave and selfless in finding out the truth of who killed Emily. He is as loyal to her and her memory as he is to himself. Although he almost certainly would not have wanted to get her pregnant intentionally, at three months it would not have been a problem to arrange an abortion. If they couln't agree on that, there could have been adoption or even raising the child themselves, as difficult as that would have been at that point in their lives. With the bravery, concern, fortitude and scruples Brendan displayed in the face of his own mortality elsewhere in the film, he would not have fallen over such a stumbling block.

Matt


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 Post subject: uh oh
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:23 pm 
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Hash Head

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:55 pm
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Location: Bay Area
There is no possible way that Tug shot Em and there is absolutely NO way that he shot her in the face. The reasoning behind this is two fold. The slightly weaker reason is the nature of our protagonist Brendan. There is no way our super sleuth would miss a gunshot wound especially if he physically moves the body to a hiding spot. The second reason why this couldn't happen is because of how gun shots work. Guns and bullets especially of the size that would come from Tug's gun leave exit wounds. The entrance wounds are actually smaller and then leave large holes where they exit as the bullet encounters mass which slows it down and causes it to rip a large chunk of flesh as it exits the body. Additionally most hand gun rounds are hollow point which means the soft lead of the bullet mushrooms(expands) as it encounters resistance ultimately leaving a much larger sized cavity on the way out. This makes hollowpoints very very dangerous to soft targets because of the greater tissue damage and shock. So Em any way you scan it would have had a fairly large visible wound on her backside from Tug's gun wherever he would have shot her. THis clearly is not the case. And as for the face thing If the scene with Dode is any indication There would be Some splatter evidence on the walls of the endtrance to the tunnel in addition to the GIGANTIC GAPING HOLE in the back of Em's head which clearly isn't the case. Therefore Tug did not shoot emily. How then did he kill her? Well my personal favorite image is of him throttling her sweet neck till she dies. I guess my evidence for this is in the first scene of the Pin's where Tug starts throttling Brendan after Brendan reveals he know the address. Also in the Mirror scene of the Pin's basement where Tug is SUPER Pissed and goes for the neck of Brendan holding him up agains the wall by his throat. Ah nothing like good throttle to get your day going. GO TUG!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:05 pm 
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Hash Head
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Of cause a .22 would not have an exit wound as they have enough power to enter the head but not leave. It is possible that Tug may have had a smaller gun but not likely. I don't think that Brendan would have killed Emily because he's not a killer, or atleast a primary killer. He could have saved the Pin but he let him die, and so you cannot say that he is totally inocent. Throterling is a decent possibility, though tug would have sustained some injuries during this. Scratches and what not. She may have drownd after a hit on the head but I got me a theory.

Suicide! Driven to it by Laura out of fear of Tug. We know she didnt want the baby. Things had gotten bad for her. She may have chosen this meeting as an opotunity to end it all. Tug may have been meeting her and found her dead when he got there, paniced and ran off believeing that he had driven the woman he loved, and carrying his child to kill herself. This would also explain why he went off on one at Dode because he knew he would be blamed and couldnt face it. And any which way ya push it its still a possibility. Even if Tug's guns involved she could have used it again making him feel guilty. There we have it fokes. My next dose of controvercy. So born is the somewhat rocky

EMILY SUICIDE THEORY - I'm strangly proud :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:17 pm 
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Drama Vamp

Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:14 pm
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Location: Walnut Creek
Not to be a dickhead, but elsewhere on the forum this is discussed and it is is made pretty clear (by much more authoritative figures than myself) that Tug did in fact kill Emily, though it's unclear how. Emily and Laura were planning a visit to the abortionist, and I'm not sure Tug would be that likely to lose track of his gun.

In general, I've never warmed to the idea of Emily as suicidal. But I will give you this, you are not the only person here who has made that proposition.

_________________
"And as for supply and demand, let's just say that an architect is much more likely to hire a prostitute than the other way around."

-Freakonomics


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:46 pm 
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Hash Head
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Where abouts has it been pointed out because I would like to read it. I guess the suicide idea was attractive to me because I like the idea that no one person was to blame for this. Emilys death as the catalyst being a result of everything, and not 1 or 2 parties. It would be a gud example of Brendans perception of the world that its the worst in people that comes to fruition, and him believeing the worst in everyone EXCEPT Emily. Now if I am wrong (which by the sounds of the other threads that you speak of) I am, I still really like the idea. It adds a final ironic futility to the story, and a great example of Brendan coping in the only way he can - finding a guilty party and dealing out retrobution.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:28 pm 
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Lapdog
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And in the last scene on the field after the big shootout, doesn't Laura tell Brendan that the gun that Tug tried to shoot his way out with, was the same gun that killed emily and dode (and maybe also killed the pin)?

Not that we can trust that anything Laura says is the truth...

_________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves,
but wiser people are full of doubts. --Bertrand Russell


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Hash Head
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If it was the same gun that was used then maybe Emily got it off Tug. I know what your thinking, that she couldnt have taken his gun. Easy enough if she hugged him and took it outta the back of his jeans. not the most secure place to keep a gun.

Why has it been assumed that it was Tug that was meeting her at the tunnel though. We have nothing to suggest that it was him. All we have is a piece of paper with one of their (Pin and Tugs groups) call signs on. Anyone in the know could have passed it on.

I dont see how it works being Tugs gun that killed her though. Really confuses me. As Tresh248 pointed out

Quote:
'There is no possible way that Tug shot Em and there is absolutely NO way that he shot her in the face. The reasoning behind this is two fold. The slightly weaker reason is the nature of our protagonist Brendan. There is no way our super sleuth would miss a gunshot wound especially if he physically moves the body to a hiding spot. The second reason why this couldn't happen is because of how gun shots work. Guns and bullets especially of the size that would come from Tug's gun leave exit wounds. The entrance wounds are actually smaller and then leave large holes where they exit as the bullet encounters mass which slows it down and causes it to rip a large chunk of flesh as it exits the body. '


And we have seen what Tugs gun did to Dodes head. Nice big exit wound and a loverly spray of blood. So can we assume from this that Emily was not killed by the gun, or maybe not at the tunnel. There would be evidence, no matter how much of stream shes partcially lieing in. But what if she wasnt killed at the tunnel? What if someone in the know about the meet killed her and took her there, because if it was the person who organised the meet why would you kill her elsewhere and take the body to somewhere a handful of people knew she would be?

And like jane said

Quote:
'Not that we can trust that anything Laura says is the truth...'


How would Laura know if it was the same gun? The fight took place at 4:15 am, and when she met Brendan it was still pretty early on in the day (as Brendan had posted the not to the AVP and Laura had not yet been picked up). How would she know? I dont know if America police work A LOT quicker than ours (doubt it as guns are still a big thing in blighty) but took only 4 hours to find Dodes corpse, remove any bullets there may be (remembering that without a bullet they could only know it was the same calibre used, and to find the bullet from Dode they would have to dig it out of the tunnel wall), send them to ballistics, get the results back and give a press statement. I dont think so. So this is either a lie or she knew it was the same gun anyway.

If it was the same gun Brendan would have known she had been shot, and surely have a good idea of the size gun responcible. This is an astute, street smart kid we're talkin about. Yet there was no mension made to a gun at any point during the film, nor, if I remember correctly, was there any more of a confesion from Tug than killing Dode. No thats a bit much for me. She's lieing or knew it was the gun and Tug wouldnt have told her if he had killed Emily would he? So, the only way that she could have known is if it was her that had done it (or she had got someone else to)

Motive - as explained at the end, to save herself.
Opotunity - She could have taken it if it was left unattemded at the Pins house and returned it after the murder. And she too, would know the signs. New suspect (though I still like suicide) Laura.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Lapdog
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yes, the very thing Brendan says he wants to learn, was WHO PUT HER IN FRONT OF THE GUN. Not who choked her or beat her up, not who stole the brick or who was dealing... just who put Emily in front of the gun.

_________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves,

but wiser people are full of doubts. --Bertrand Russell


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