Rian's Forum

A place to discuss Rian's stuff, and stuff that isn't Rian's stuff. Hello!
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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Mwahahaha...


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:14 am 
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Penelope's costuming - I actually was entertained that on that first day she spends with Bloom, she's "green", then mostly just black/white/grey like the brothers, until we see the orange come back in Mexico.


Oh, and let's not forget the fabulousness of having Ricky Jay, one of the world's most well known experts of cons (especially with cards) acting as narrator! That just fills me with glee.


My viewing partner didn't notice the introduction was all done in rhyme until i mentioned it the next day. So very Greek/Shakespearean of you! And so superbly executed considering the number of vocals involved... magnificent.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:38 am 
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stacymckenna wrote:
Penelope's costuming - I actually was entertained that on that first day she spends with Bloom, she's "green", then mostly just black/white/grey like the brothers, until we see the orange come back in Mexico.


Oh, and let's not forget the fabulousness of having Ricky Jay, one of the world's most well known experts of cons (especially with cards) acting as narrator! That just fills me with glee.


My viewing partner didn't notice the introduction was all done in rhyme until i mentioned it the next day. So very Greek/Shakespearean of you! And so superbly executed considering the number of vocals involved... magnificent.


Uh-oh, someone else I've known since the 80s is here. Best behavior time.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:40 am 
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Dear Rian,

My wife and I saw your movie this weekend and it was the very best film I've seen in a long time (and I teach films); last summer's The Fall made a big impression on me, and your film was right up there, intelligent, witty, cosmopolitan, grounded deep in literary tradition, simply beautiful. And the acting by all the leads was impeccable. Dylan's Masked and Anonymous is also a touchstone for me, and Bros. Bloom even measures up to it in multidimensional complexity.

I'm sure the film would have impressed me in any event, but the timing helped: I'd just finished a furious month of inspired research and writing of an "alchemical poem" (for lack of a better description), having read all sorts of weird, fantastic stuff from cabala to gnostic gospels to Shelley's Last Man to (I kid you not) Melville's Confidence Man (AND--at least parts--his Clarel, top that!)--and because of this, everything in the movie just sort of clicked and I was deeply moved by the entire flow of symbols and architectonics of plot and character.

From the start I read the boys as wandering Jews (eh?), and thus came in all the brothers and sibling dynamics of the Jewish tradition (Cain/Abel, Jacob/Esau, etc). A question: Bloom's NJ license plate is, I believe, TOV 558 (not sure on the number). Is this as in Hebrew tov, 'good', as in tov wara 'good and evil' from the Adam and Eve story (also referenced plenty elsewhere)? Or am I reading too much into a small detail? (Bloom? does say that his brother weaves in symbolism like a Russian novelist.)

On the way home my wife and I debated the plot indeterminacies: was Penelope a real mark or in on the con from the beginning? (We decided she is probably the perfect mark, because she wanted to be duped and knew she was but still went along with it because of the new life it gave her.) At what point did Stephen lose control of the con and in what ways? Because basically it seems that either 1) he was in complete control the entire time and he commits suicide, or 2) he lost control at some point and suffered the consequences. Although suicide at first seems an unlikely intention for such a lover of life, I think we agreed that he does know what he's doing to the end and so he has chosen to die to free his brother whom he loves. (Responses?)

Anyway, thanks for the brilliant, uplifting work of art; I'll be returning to it frequently. [If interested, here's some of my stuff: http://theblindedeye.wordpress.com/poetry/ . I'm sure you're a VERY busy dude, but you may enjoy, since I'm pretty sure our imaginations operate on several similar wavelengths.]

Best wishes on the rest of the film's run et cetera,

MWF

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:54 am 
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Justin - bah! I ain't your mommy, *I* don't care if you act like an adult who can eat ice cream for breakfast. Heck, it'll likely make MY behavior look less scandalous! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Righty-ho, I will continue to act as irresponsibly as I usually do.

And I only have ice cream for breakfast if the meth is particularly harsh. So nyah.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:50 pm 
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matfox wrote:
Dear Rian,

My wife and I saw your movie this weekend and it was the very best film I've seen in a long time (and I teach films); last summer's The Fall made a big impression on me, and your film was right up there, intelligent, witty, cosmopolitan, grounded deep in literary tradition, simply beautiful. And the acting by all the leads was impeccable. Dylan's Masked and Anonymous is also a touchstone for me, and Bros. Bloom even measures up to it in multidimensional complexity.


Thanks so much, I'm really glad you dug it! I'm going to be slightly Dylan-esque and dodge your questions about the symbolism, and although I will say that I didn't mean the brothers to be Jewish, it's a very interesting read on it (and definitely not wrong.) There is, after all, the Leo B. connection.

Again, so glad that you enjoyed it and are digging into it.

Rian

(Hi Stacy! Hi!)


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:08 pm 
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rcjohnso wrote:
matfox wrote:
Dear Rian,

My wife and I saw your movie this weekend and it was the very best film I've seen in a long time (and I teach films); last summer's The Fall made a big impression on me, and your film was right up there, intelligent, witty, cosmopolitan, grounded deep in literary tradition, simply beautiful. And the acting by all the leads was impeccable. Dylan's Masked and Anonymous is also a touchstone for me, and Bros. Bloom even measures up to it in multidimensional complexity.


Thanks so much, I'm really glad you dug it! I'm going to be slightly Dylan-esque and dodge your questions about the symbolism, and although I will say that I didn't mean the brothers to be Jewish, it's a very interesting read on it (and definitely not wrong.) There is, after all, the Leo B. connection.

Again, so glad that you enjoyed it and are digging into it.

Rian



Both of them, I assume (Joyce's and his Mel Brooks' progeny--though there's surely plenty others whirling in that vortex).

In Prague did you happen to visit the Alt-Neu Synagogue (home of the infamous golem)? I saw your blog pictures and it looked like a pre-film visit--to the city--was some inspiration on the film....

MWF

_________________
"Finally, a circus full of whimsy"


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm 
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matfox wrote:
Both of them, I assume (Joyce's and his Mel Brooks' progeny--though there's surely plenty others whirling in that vortex).

In Prague did you happen to visit the Alt-Neu Synagogue (home of the infamous golem)? I saw your blog pictures and it looked like a pre-film visit--to the city--was some inspiration on the film....

MWF


I did, absolutely beautiful. As a little nod, in the original screenplay there was a long scene where the Curator tells a story about a stone golem, although in actuality it has little to do with the Jewish myth.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:50 pm 
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rcjohnso wrote:
matfox wrote:
Both of them, I assume (Joyce's and his Mel Brooks' progeny--though there's surely plenty others whirling in that vortex).

In Prague did you happen to visit the Alt-Neu Synagogue (home of the infamous golem)? I saw your blog pictures and it looked like a pre-film visit--to the city--was some inspiration on the film....

MWF


I did, absolutely beautiful. As a little nod, in the original screenplay there was a long scene where the Curator tells a story about a stone golem, although in actuality it has little to do with the Jewish myth.



Did you film it? Or did it hit the floor before that? People probably wouldn't get it anyway. (The way you just flat-out quoted Melville's Con-Man was a great way to gently school modern audiences in the ways of literary allusion.)

I tried to read Meyrink's The Golem in my recent crime/reading spree; what a weird book. Then browsed H. Leivick's play (or "Dramatic Poem") The Golem---then started chasing the golem through Mary Shelley and other incarnations (like Sci-Fi creatures and monsters, like D. Brin's Kiln People). A very smart study is C. Baldick's "In Frankenstein's Shadow: Myth, Monstrosity, and Nineteenth-Century Writing" (1987, Oxford); she has among other things a good chapter on Melville's Moby Dick as a Shelley-esque monster.

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:41 pm 
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We filmed it, it'll be on the DVD in the deleted scenes section.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Where is Penelope's house, if you don't mind revealing? Is it really in NJ? (where I am).

I'm thinking about how the/a golem adds to or fits in with the plot/symbolism.....still working on it, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:33 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele%C5%9F_Castle

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:44 pm 
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I knew it was too big and secluded to be in Jersey... Even the $4 million mansions here have a fence separating it from the neighbors.


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 Post subject: Re: Hidden References
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:19 pm 
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That brings up a good question: why New Jersey?

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