Rian's Forum

A place to discuss Rian's stuff, and stuff that isn't Rian's stuff. Hello!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Pie-Pan Grease
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Either way... Stephen's a genius. I just have one really itchin' question. Was Stephen's death essentially suicide, an elaborate con from the beginning which ended in his life being taken, and giving Bloom exactly what Bloom wanted; freedom from living as a con man as well as a life with Penelope?

...or was Stephen's con about Bloom taking a bullet for Penelope intercepted by the Diamond Dog, coincidentally asking for a ransom of 1.75 million dollars, making Bloom think it's just another one of Stephen's cons, which Stephen realizes what Bloom finds him in the abandoned theatre, which Stephen then quickly comes up with the "Perfect Con", fighting through the pain because he realizes he has an opportunity to quickly con Bloom into giving Bloom everything he wanted?

Both seem to make sense. But it's kinda unclear.

The first option seems to illustrate why it was so necessary that DD was used in the initial con, because Stephen anticipated DD would try to perform his own little con within the con by getting revenge on Stephen and fulfilling his "One day Stephen will fall" prophecy. Killing him...

But death just seems a little unnecessary... Unless it was a suicide much like George Eastman's. George Eastman was the inventor of 35mm film and then killed himself, leaving the note "My work is done. Why wait?" (only Eastman also had a degenerative disorder and was 77 years old... stupid Stephen :lol: )(bad reference. hm. seemed to apply at first, but would only really apply if Eastman invented film and then killed himself right after. not the case. so nevermind! :lol: )

Regardless. Great movie. Thanks for your time and I hope this made sense. I kinda tend to ramble. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:09 am 
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You say unnecessary, but according to Rian, it prevents Bloom from ever falling into Stephen's trap again.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:51 pm 
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okay, fair enough. still, suicide no?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Ah, that's what I love about this movie. So many possible interpretations.

I still haven't totally decided what my official opinion is on Stephen's motives. I agree it makes a certain amount of sense if you imagine Stephen planned his own death, but I still can't totally grok his wanting to die. My feeling is that he set up this whole con to satisfy Bloom's ultimate desire to get out of that life forever, and just didn't factor in his own safety. Maybe a little voice in the back of his head said, "You know, you could get killed in this business," but all he could think was how well that would fit in with the story. I like to imagine that was his fatal flaw: he didn't want death per se, he just sort of forgot that dying in the con meant dying for real in this case. How many other times has he "died" for the sake of the con, only to hop up and pull the cackle bladder from his shirt with that "ta da!" look on his face? When he tried to push Bloom out of the way and took the bullet, he thought fast and made the best of it, twisting the story to give Bloom a happy ending. I interpreted his final scene as him coming to grips with the fact that this time, it's really over. And given that he finally fulfilled his own ultimate desire (to tell a story so well it became real), I think he's oddly comfortable with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:39 pm 
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:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:50 am 
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See, I told you Rian loves this shit. Look at him, he's simply green with joy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:34 am 
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i think the greatest movies are the ones where the writer doesn't come up with a finite outcome, not because they are lazy but simply because he/she wants to leave the audience to contemplate the outcome for years to come. Unfortunatley, this is not one of those movies and we can only blame Keyser Söze for the death of Stephen (who is also Tyler Durden)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:46 pm 
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I've just seen the movie and what I think is that Stephen is not dead, the images we see are in Bloom's mind, but all of this is a trick. In the middle of the movie, Stephen tells Bloom something like "If I cheated you I would kill me" and I think he is also the one who tells about the color of the blood and the way Bang Bang would disappear... And everything happen exactly as he would imagine. And there's no way Penelope is not part of the trick. Anyway, that is the end I want to believe in !
For those who understand french (sorry for the previous mistakes in my English message) :
J'ai pensé à une arnaque dans l'arnaque dès le moment où Stephen dit à Bloom que c'est toujours pour lui qu'il monte ses arnaques. Je me plais à penser que le réalisateur arnaque le spectateur, tout en lui donnant de nombreuses pistes. Sans ça, trop de choses ne tiennent pas debout dans le film, et le montage nous laisse penser que chaque détail a été réfléchi. Je crois que je vais aller revoir le film pour vérifier mon hypothèse, mais j'espère sincèrement que cette hypothèse tient la route !


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:39 pm 
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You want to believe that Penelope is tricking Bloom and didn't really fall in love with him? I thought all French were romantics...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 pm 
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I think she was chosen by Stephen but falls in love with Bloom when she knows him... Hope I am romantic ! Even if I think the most touching relationship in this movie is between the brothers.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Fair enough :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Spoilery thread title is spoilery.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:21 am 
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Yeah... can you change that title, Sarah?
That's pretty much the biggest spoiler in the movie and each time I log in, I keep thinking how much it would suck to see that before getting to see the film!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:17 pm 
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This is the section for people who have seen the film, and is labeled as "a spoiler-ridden place" on the front page...so I'm going to leave it up to sklowly to change if he wants. Really, anyone who hasn't seen the film and is looking in this section is asking for it.

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I'm way too lazy to ever be truly belligerently insane.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Tough love, Sarah, tough love! No nannying mod on this forum, nosirreebob...

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