Rian's Forum

A place to discuss Rian's stuff, and stuff that isn't Rian's stuff. Hello!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:28 pm 
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The Pin's Mom
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I try to avoid editing other peoples' posts unless totally necessary, y'know? Don't want to wield the mod stick too wildly.
I'm not saying there's no validity in Nathan and Donnacha's concerns, I just feel like in this case, it's not an emergency or a clear violation of the board rules. If sklowly wants to change the title, he can do so by clicking the "edit" button on his original post, and I would totally support that :)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Bloom and Stephen really are only living one life. For Bloom to live, Stephen must die. But in the sequel, Bloom will now be named Stephen Bloom, so Stephen never really dies at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:36 am 
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westcoast ape wrote:
Bloom and Stephen really are only living one life. For Bloom to live, Stephen must die. But in the sequel, Bloom will now be named Stephen Bloom, so Stephen never really dies at all.


You bastard.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:54 pm 
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I just rewatched (for Halloween ideas: I’m going as Bang Bang) and was left wondering if Penelope wasn’t the driving force behind Stephen’s death. Her MO is to admire a skill and then perfect it. What if she conned both Bloom and Stephen, and wrote the perfect con when Stephen couldn’t. Bloom tells her that Stephen would be happiest dying in one of his cons. Bloom wants to live the unwritten life, which he can’t while Stephen’s alive- Stephen might not have had quite sufficient dedication to his brother’s interest to kill himself off, but maybe Penelope did, especially since she’d have good reason to be angry with Stephen. She might have controlled the situation in such a way that Stephen had to work with Diamond Dog, who could be counted on to be vengeful. So Stephen thinks he’s writing the con, when Penelope is actually outmaneuvering him without his knowing it.

I don’t much care for my own theory; it makes Penelope too vicious. If you rewatch with this in mind, however, you can definitely find details that fit. Has anyone else had suspicions about this?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Lefthanded Stepchild wrote:
I just rewatched (for Halloween ideas: I’m going as Bang Bang)

Pics or it didn't happen!

Lefthanded Stepchild wrote:
I don’t much care for my own theory; it makes Penelope too vicious. If you rewatch with this in mind, however, you can definitely find details that fit. Has anyone else had suspicions about this?

This is definitely a cool theory, but I'm with you. I don't like the idea of Pen orchestrating Stephen's death - plus, that smacks of the kind of con man movie where all that matters is the twist at the end, and to hell with the characters.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Lefthanded Stepchild wrote:
I just rewatched (for Halloween ideas: I’m going as Bang Bang)


Yeah, this must be documented.

Welcome to the forum! 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:40 am 
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Image

Thank you! Apologies if I cause havoc trying to post this; modern technology confounds me.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:33 am 
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FUCK ME!

8)

That is truly awesome.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:54 pm 
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EPIC WIN! That's a great costume. Too bad you couldn't find the big yak jacket.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:20 am 
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I know I'm arriving pretty late to the party, but I only just found this place while trying to find out when The Brothers Bloom comes out of DVD in Australia (incidentally, does anyone know?).

This question was one of three I came out of my first viewing with: What did Stephen plan? I'm not pretty sure that the whole thing - including Diamond Dog's involvement - was planned on the bench, as the camel drank from his flask. The whole con that Stephen plays on Bloom from that point on is reflected in the title cards (i.e. "St. Petersburg - The Big Finish") and all of them are connected, as are the boxes that detail the Brothers' first con. There is no break in the title cards' progression, even when Bloom "finds out" that Stephen is conning him in Mexico. This, too, was intentional. Bloom can't simply be convinced that Stephen's con is real, and act accordingly. He has to not know whether he is being conned or not, and realise that it doesn't matter. The "discovery" in Mexico is planned because otherwise Bloom's decision to drop the phone and pull the trigger in St. Petersburg doesn't mean anything. Or, at least, doesn't mean enough.

Regarding Diamond Dog, I'll write more tomorrow. When I worked that one out, I was very excited.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Welcome to the board. 8) Not sure about the Australian DVD, but considering it hit theaters there a month or so ago I'd assume it's soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Hey, Rian! Um.

It's a bloody weird feeling speculating about the movie as Rian is looking over your shoulder, grinning in an infuriating way. It's unsettling.

re: The DVD. I asked at the local video store and they said "Not this month". I need more. Is it possible that Summit's exclusive deal with Blockbuster applies here, too?

Edit: And now, Diamond Dog. I've had a look around and the parallels w/Greek myth via Ulysses have already been well covered (damn, then again I am late to the party). It also appears that I misremembered a line of dialogue. But we'll come to that.

So, I thought (based largely on the title cards) that The Bloom Con - Stephen's giant plan to give Bloom an unwritten life - included the 'discovery' in Mexico, DD's double-cross and Stephen's death. Is there any evidence for DD's involvement in the con? I think so.

There are three options: 1) DD's double-cross is 'real' and unanticipated by Stephen who, while dying, tries to spin it so that he doesn't die in vain and Bloom learns something etc. etc. 2) DD believes he is double-crossing but is being manipulated by Stephen to do so or 3) DD knows his part in the plan.

I am quite sure that #3 is correct, based on the exchange between Stephen and DD in St. Petersburg. They are ostensibly discussing the plan to scare Penelope away, but once Bloom is out of earshot DD says "... and so, our hero must face the Minotaur before all is done." or words to that effect (Note: I remembered DD saying "cyclops" referring to his one eye, changing the myth to that of Odysseus, which also works, via the Ulysses connection). Anyway, he distinctly says "hero". He knows that the plan is not about Penelope at all, but about Bloom. DD knows what Stephen is trying to do (free Bloom from the labyrinth) and is a willing participant. Next question is: Why? He has no love for the Brothers at all. How did Stephen buy his co-operation? Stephen knew he was essential - DD fills the same role in Bloom's Con as do the phonetic cues to his ex-wife in Charleston's Con. How does he get DD to agree? He gives him what he's always wanted - revenge. He buys DD's co-operation with his own life.

Apologies if this is all old news, and if I'm terribly wrong, feel free to tell me so.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:21 am 
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I'll look into the Australian DVD and see what I can find out.

And I'll discreetly look over at the other side of the room for the rest of your post.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:34 am 
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That somehow makes it worse.

And thanks on the DVD thing. Every Bloom-less day is worse than the one before.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Don't worry about being late to the party! Heck, people still occasionally post speculations about Brick -- and you know what? It's awesome.

Hmmm...I could say something about your speculations that comes from a deleted scene on the DVD. Want to wait until you get it? Then don't highlight the following text :D

Quote:
I hope I get this right, anyway. The "burst of violence and moment of truth on the beach" in Mexico was originally written and even shot with Penelope buying the con. As they were shooting, Rian and Co decided it didn't feel genuine to Pen's character, and tried shooting the scene with her not buying it. In the original version, when she left the room Bloom says, "Did you expect me to go along with it?" Stephen says something to the affect of "I hoped you wouldn't...but yeah, I expected you to." Except far more eloquently, of course!


A little food for your thoughts!

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@rcjohnso wrote:
I'm way too lazy to ever be truly belligerently insane.


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